The U.S. is watching for a decision from Moscow on the use of chemical or biological weapons in Ukraine. Daniel Gerstein, a senior policy researcher at the RAND Corporation, spoke to Yahoo News about why chemical and biological weapons are controversial and how they destroy. The U.S. is keeping a close eye on Russia's use of chemical or biological weapons in Ukraine. Russia has a history of accusing the West of perpetrating crimes. There would be a severe price to pay if Russia used such weapons. Daniel Gerstein, a senior policy researcher at the RAND Corporation, spoke to Yahoo News about how chemical and biological weapons work, why they're controversial, and the kind of destruction they cause. He was the acting undersecretary. The interview was shortened and edited for clarity. What is a chemical weapon, how do it work, and what are some examples? We generally think of chemical weapons as derived material. To be classified as a chemical weapon, we would need a dispersal device. There are a number of families of chemical weapons that we have had concerns about historically, and that are on the list for the Chemical Weapons Convention. We have things like chlorine and choking agents. mustard gas would be used. There are blood agents. There are nerve agents such as sarin nerve agent. Novichok is a nerve agent that we have heard a lot about here. It was used in the attempted assassination of a Russian opposition leader, as well as Sergei Skripal, a former Russian double agent, and his daughter, in the U.K. The October 2002 Moscow theater siege is believed to have been caused by a gas called Fentanyl, which was used by Russian special forces to kill the attackers and hostages. Are chemical weapons banned or controversial? In World War I, over a million people were killed using chemical weapons, which was the result of people using toxins as poisons. We came up with prohibitions on the use of chemicals because of the horrible use of them on the battlefield. Tools of assassinations, as well as terror weapons. The Chemical Weapons Convention was negotiated in 1993. The type of arms control agreement that entered into force in 1997 limits the types of chemicals that states can possess, according to a list. There are dual uses of some of the chemicals on the lists. If some of the same chemicals used in developing pesticides were used in a chemical weapon against humans, it would be very dangerous and the legitimate uses of the chemicals would be prevented. The use of nerve agents and toxic industrial chemicals, such as chlorine, is an example that we saw in Syria. Chlorine can be used as a chemical weapon. When it gets into the lungs, it mixes with the water in the lungs and creates hydrochloric acid, which kills the victim. We would like to think about prohibiting the use of both chemical weapons and toxic industrial chemicals as weapons of mass destruction. What are biological weapons? They are weapons that have been developed using biological material, and they are combined with other means of dispersal to become biological weapons. We want to think about three categories. The toxins that are derived frombacteria and viruses are the first two. Many of us in the United States are familiar with the use of anthrax. Anthrax is a disease. In 2001, it was put into the mail system and it killed five people and sickened 22 others. The bubonic plague is one of the things we talk about throughout history. We like to think about tularemia. A number comes to mind when we talk about viral. We can talk about the history of humanity, but we can't talk about the fact that it was a problem all the way back to the early days of humans. Another one is the disease. There have been attempts to weaponize the disease, to marry it up with a delivery system and use it as a weapon of mass destruction. Weapons of mass destruction are possible with other viral hemorrhagic fevers. When we talk about toxins, one that you are probably familiar with, but more from its name than its scientific name, isotulinumtoxinA, or botulinum neurotoxin. Botulinum neurotoxin is very dangerous. If someone is exposed to it, they can be killed by preventing them from respirating, so they would either have to have cardiopulmonary assist or be on a breathing machine. It is a very dangerous toxin. When we had an offensive U.S. program, we considered using staphylococcus enterotoxin B. If you marry up the toxin and the means of delivery, you can create a biological weapon. Is biological weapons banned? They are banned under the Biological Weapons Convention, which entered into force in 1975. The treaty is unique. It is the first treaty to completely ban all weapons. The only way in which you can have these pathogens is if they are used for preventive, prophylactic or peaceful purposes. Today, we see a lot of use for making vaccines with the use of biotechnology. They have obviously been modified, but using viruses to deliver an immunological response. There are many reasons why you would experiment with it. For a defensive purpose, you would want to have small quantities to be able to develop diagnostics and medical countermeasures and vaccines, but in terms of their use as a weapon, it is absolutely forbidden. There aren't any circumstances in which it would be acceptable. Russia has a potential false flag tactic. The Russians have made the claim that we think is leading up to a false flag operation, that Ukraine might be thinking about using chemical or biological weapons as a means of attack. The Nunn-Lugar Cooperative Threat Reduction Program was administered by the Obama administration. The program was bipartisan. Richard Lugar and Sam Nunn are both Republicans. After the fall of the Berlin Wall and the dissolution of the Soviet Union, all of the weapons-of-mass-destruction facilities and capabilities developed by the Soviet Union would be destroyed. If it was destroyed, the scientists would find another way to work, but instead of thinking about weaponization, they would think about things such as developing vaccines and medical countermeasures. Our program was designed to find out where the work was being done. In the case of biological material, we put what was available as their strain repository into a consolidated location according to Western standards. In some cases, we built laboratory facilities. newer equipment that would allow them to handle any pathogens was given to them. Many countries around the world have some sort of endemic disease. Being able to retain strain collections for those diseases is very important. Why is the U.S. on high alert? We are concerned about a humanitarian catastrophe. Thousands of people can be killed in a single attack with chemical and biological weapons. There are people who are underground in the subways, and you can think about the use of chemical weapons. They are in the basement and chlorine could kill a lot of people. One of the big concerns with regard to the biological weapons is that if they attacked a facility that had some of the pathogens that had been properly categorized and stored, and then they were to be hit by bullets, you could have these biological pathogens just released into the open. That could be very bad. Policy implications are significant. Russia is a member of both the Biological Weapons Convention and the Chemical Weapons Convention. If they conduct a false flag operation, they are crossing some significant nonproliferation red lines and that is not something to be taken lightly. We don't want to see the use of chemical weapons again. It is not right. This shouldn't be part of the battlefield. 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