Mark Zuckerberg is now the proud owner of a new title for the first time in 17-years.
He was officially named CEO and chairman for Meta, the new parent company of Facebook, on Thursday. The rebrand aims to make Facebook a more focused social media company. Zuckerberg will remain in complete control of all matters. In an interview, he said that unlike other founders of Google, who left the company in 2015 to make it part of Alphabet, he doesn't plan on giving up his top job.
We are moving from being Facebook as a company to being metaverse.
The change is not about changing the company's behavior, but acknowledging a shift that has already occurred. Zuckerberg has spent at least $10 Billion this year on building the metaverse. This immersive, expansive vision of the internet is a result of sci-fi novels such as Ready Player One and Snow Crash. He said this to me over the phone that we were moving from being Facebook as a company to becoming metaverse first. Although details are not available, it is likely that a unified account system will be implemented to cover all company social apps, Oculus Quest headsets, Portal and any future devices. You don't need to have a Facebook account in order to use Quest.
Since Zuckerberg officially launched the project six months ago, the rebranding to Meta was a secretive affair. A small number of employees had to sign separate agreements and Zuckerberg refused me to reveal the name when we spoke before Connect. Zuckerberg said that he had been considering rebranding his company since he purchased Instagram and WhatsApp in 2012 and 2014. However, he decided it was time to do so earlier this year.
He said that it was a confusing and awkward decision to have the company branding be the brand of one social media app. It is beneficial for people to have a different relationship with a company than they do with specific products. This can sort of supersede all the other relationships.
Recent leaks did not have any bearing on the name change
Zuckerberg is aware that this rebranding was not the right time. The leakage of internal documents by Frances Haugen, a former employee, has caused the company to be subject to a constant barrage in criticism over the last few weeks. Facebook is the most closely watched company in the world at the moment, and its image has suffered in the eyes young people. Many critics will see the dissociation of the brand and Zuckerberg's name from Facebook as an evasion tactic.
Zuckerberg said that the current cycle was not influenced by bad news. Although I understand that some people may want to make this connection, I find it absurd. This isn't the right environment to launch a brand.
Although the idea of the metaverse isn't new, Zuckerberg began to talk about it publicly in early 2012. Snow Crash is a 1990 dystopian novel that depicts people fleeing the real world in order to live in a virtual one. Zuckerberg acknowledges that the original word is a con but he wants to reclaim it as a utopian idea that will open up a new market for virtual goods and services.
He believes that most people will spend their time on a 3D, immersive version of the internet within the next decade. This includes devices created by other companies as well as Metas hardware like the Quest. His teams are working to develop technology that will allow you to appear in virtual space as an avatar or hologram of yourself, in real-world living rooms of friends who live across the globe.
What is the metaverse? It all depends on who you ask. However, it refers to a variety of interconnected digital spaces that can be experienced in VR or through social networks, with real-time references to the physical world. It is possible to read more about it.
While he is careful to not go into too many details, he believes that crypto technology such as NFTs or smart contracts will play a significant role in the metaverse. He said that one of the biggest questions people will have about virtual goods in metaverse is "Do I get to own it?" Is it content that can be taken away in the future? Given all the pressures we have had to deal with regarding censorship and what the definition of harmful is versus when people are able to express themselves freely.
Horizon is the software that underpins Zuckerberg's metaverse takeover. Horizon is a mix of Roblox and Minecraft, with a tool for collaboration at work. The company will introduce Project Cambria next year. This headset combines virtual graphics with real-world reality in full color. To create more realistic avatars, it will feature eye and face tracking.
A pair of AR glasses, Nazar, is also in development. Although they are still years away, Zuckerberg believes they could be as popular as today's mobile phones. Nazar, which is a VR headset, will not take you out of the real-world. Instead, it will look like normal glasses that can overlay computing onto the world around. He said that these products look less like what you might consider a social media product. It is also important to have a different identity for this.
Although it is unclear whether the Meta rebrand will be successful, there is no doubt that it is a bold move. The company faces new social media competitors, frustrated regulators and a new generation potential users who see its core app as not hip. Zuckerberg has a new and more maximalist direction in mind with the metaverse. It's time to get to work.
Below is the transcript of my entire interview with Zuckerberg. This transcript has been edited to improve clarity and length.
Alex Heath: Could you please explain why you are doing this rebranding?
Mark Zuckerberg: As part of earnings, we did the segment reporting change Monday at a high-level. We now see our business in two distinct segments. There are two segments: one for social apps, and one for future platforms. The idea is that metaverse work we are doing is not focused on any of these segments. Reality Labs is not doing the metaverse building work. It extends across all of these. Future platforms and social experiences will be part of the metaverse.
We wanted a brand identity that was in line with our future vision. There is a higher-level goal for brand identity and then there is a more technical and operational goal. Facebook is the most iconic social media platform. This is the higher-level piece. But we were increasingly doing more than that. While we are often referred to as a social media company by many, our view of ourselves is that we are a technology company that creates technology that helps people connect. Because everyone else is trying improve the way people interact with technology, we believe that's what makes us different.
It wasn't just about social media for us. We were increasingly moving beyond that. The idea of having the company's brand tied to social media and one product was becoming increasingly important. We now have WhatsApp and Instagram growing in importance. It also felt like the company didn't cover everything we were doing. We wanted something more representative of the vision we were working towards.
People find it helpful to have a different relationship with a company than they do with any of the products.
Functionally and technically, I believe that it was a bit confusing and awkward to have the company branding be the brand of the other social media app. We wanted people to sign in to their Quest account with their Facebook account, as we wanted to maintain a single identity and account system. Apple does it, Google doesn't. Microsoft already has it. For us, the problem is that if you sign into Quest, WhatsApp, or Instagram with a Facebook account then there is confusion as to whether this will be linked to my Facebook corporate account. My device could be bricked if I don't want to use Facebook, or if my account is deactivated. Some people were concerned that my data might be shared if I sign in to Instagram or WhatsApp with this information.
It is beneficial for people to have a different relationship with a company than they do with specific products. This can supersede everything else. From a functional standpoint, it was important. As I look back over the years, I see that these products are becoming less like social media products. It is important to have a different identity for this.
It was like deciding when the best time was to make that change. This is what led us to this point. It's something we have been considering for quite some time. The project was officially launched earlier in the year. It was just over six months ago. This is a discussion that we have been having for some time within the company about whether or not we should do it. Since Alex Schultz became CMO, I have been closely involved in this discussion with him.
Does this include a restructuring component? Is it just about the brand?
Zuckerberg: Segment reporting and financial reporting are two options. There's the brand. The account system will also be available. As part of that, we are not making organizational changes. It might be something I will consider in the near future, but it is not something I see as a realistic option.
This was a formality that you initiated six months ago. Do you think it is a reaction to the brand baggage that Facebook has and the brand tax that Facebook has? Or are you trying to distance yourself from this? Is it more about looking ahead? It could be a combination of both.
Zuckerberg: We started long before the current cycle [of negative news]. The current cycle had absolutely nothing to do with this, I believe. Although I understand that some people may want to make this connection, it seems absurd. This isn't the right environment to launch a brand.
It was important to me that we were running towards something.
Sometimes you just need to keep moving forward. These brands have many different attributes and aspects. People attribute many positive and negative attributes to social media, especially Facebook. These are conversations we had within the company, I believe going back to 2014, since Instagram and WhatsApp joined us and we became a family. The company was named after one of them, which created a bit of awkwardness. It was something I didn't consider when I believed that the primary thing we were doing was Social Media. Facebook is still the most famous social media platform. It always felt strange to have a brand which was supposed to be synonymous with social media, but instead took Facebook out of the top spot and added something else. That felt a little odd. It was not clear what kind of job it would be.
Now, I believe the next chapter in what we are doing is becoming more clear. You asked a lot of questions, and I'm sure many others will have similar questions. How much do we run towards it or away from it? All I can say is, for me, that it was important to be moving towards something. This is a vision of the future we are really excited about, that we are committed to, and that we really want. If I didn't feel the same way about what I was doing, I wouldn't have done this.
It is not difficult to see that people may assign different reasons for different things. There are also different pros and cons to doing certain things. This was my basic test. If I didn't feel strongly about the brand we were anchored on and how we were moving forward, I wouldn't let us do it.
If you are trying to change the perception of your company in the valley or where you're hiring, do you think it helps with morale and recruitment?
That's an interesting question. It might help some people, but it could also work differently for others. I'm not sure. Since I signaled my desire to make us a metaverse company, we have been having this conversation for several years. It is generally a positive internal conversation. It seems that more people are excited about it.
We will continue to work hard to be the best in social media app development.
It is important for our team and me to continue to work on social media apps. Many people visit Facebook because it's what they are looking for. It is important that people pay attention to this going forward. We need to ensure that our products continue to be used by billions of people. It should be fun for people. The best people are those who can work in large missions. The metaverse, the next chapter of the internet, is going to be very exciting for a lot people. We are clearly positioned to be the company with the most ambitious vision, deepest investment and commitment in this area.
Part of this is about creating a way for your company to change its role in the future. In five years, do you see yourself as the CEO or chairman?
Zuckerberg: I believe probably. I don't have an exact date for how long. What I can say is that I am very excited for the next chapter in what we are doing. That is why I want to do it. That's it. This is not a part of a plan for moving in that direction.
Because you know that you're going to get the Alphabet Comparisons.
Zuckerberg: I think it's a fair question. What I can tell you is that this is not what we are doing. This is more about expressing our commitment to the vision and focusing our efforts on it. We also need to create a brand architecture for the company in order that all users can have a relationship that is distinct from their apps. I am very excited about the future. I'm still young. I'm very energetic. I won't be running the company at one point. This is not what the company is all about.
You sound like you are suggesting that there will be a new unified system for all accounts?
Zuckerberg: You will have a Facebook account, and an Instagram account. You will also have an account at the company's top level. You don't have to use Facebook if you don't want to. This is an interesting analogy: I believe we are moving from being Facebook as a company first to being metaverse and first. This is similar to the time Microsoft switched from Windows first to cloud.
All these subtle ways, that the company brand was Facebook, meant that a lot of stuff moved through Facebook and the Facebook App in ways that might not have been optimal. Facebook is clearly still the app people use most of all the apps. There are many people who just want to use WhatsApp, Instagram or Snapchat. Or they just want Quest to be in VR and AR without having to use any of these apps.
It's about being able choose which services you wish to use, and knowing that no matter what happens with your Instagram or Facebook accounts, you will still have all of your content from VR and all your virtual goods. An avatar can be created and linked to any of these accounts, or it could be tied to your identity across all the apps. You can also use it anywhere you like. It's going to be quite powerful, I think.
Does the metaverse push have any connection to the work being done on teens and young adults? Roblox is a favorite of kids. Fortnite is a favorite of theirs. Are they also fond of Fortnite?
Zuckerberg: It's not the main part. It is important to clarify that I am referring to young adults aged 18-29 when I talk about our north star demographic. This does not mean that we are referring to primarily teenagers and certainly not to primarily children. That's been, historically, the strong base. It continues to be a strong foundation. However, I believe it is important to remember that many people will continue to use our products.
I don't think [metaverse] will be that big until the second half this decade.
Our products have a higher median age. While we strive to make our services more accessible to everyone, I want to ensure that quality does not fall for young adults. Every team has been told by me that young adults are most important when you're building any kind of service, including feed ranking, group building, or designing Reels, video, or Marketplace. Let's say you are building a Marketplace. The needs of young adults to sell and buy is likely to be different than those of older people. There are many ways I believe products will move in this direction.
This applies to everything we're going to do in the metaverse. This will be the north star demographic and the hero demographic that we should keep in mind. However, a lot of the work we are talking about is likely to be closer than metaverse. While I believe the metaverse work will be exciting in the coming years, I don't think it will be significant until the second half if this decade.
TikTok, iMessage, and a host of other social media platforms that have been around for years, such as YouTube, Snapchat, and Instagram, are all competing with us. TikTok is growing rapidly, as are iMessage. In terms of the app focus, especially Facebook and Instagram, I believe that this will be a larger thing in the next one to three year. The metaverse work, I believe, will reach a lot more people.
The metaverse is the term. It is a term that I think originated from Snow Crash. What do you think about the dystopia it comes from? It's funny how it originated from people fleeing the real world to a virtual one, as the real one is falling apart. Did you ever think about that when you were considering leaning into the world?
Zuckerberg: Yes, that's a con. It means much more. The book is surrounded by a negative environment. It doesn't have to be this way. As these technologies evolve, I believe they acquire different meanings and metaphors. It would be quite surprising if, five years from now, the primary association most people have with the metaverse was based on the first mention of it in Snow Crash. It will be about all the possible uses and possibilities that people have with it.
It would be interesting to see what the first mentions of the internet looked like. It was called the information superhighway or something. Although none of it was negative, it was quite strange when compared with how we see it now. These things are always more dynamic, I believe. Because of the negative connotations some people have, I didn't want to be discouraged from using the most logical and clear term that best matched our building. It will take on a greater meaning.
Connect was a part that I found interesting. It featured you discussing crypto and new forms for governance in the metaverse. Do you plan to support NFTs? Your thoughts seemed to be focused on DAOs. It would be interesting to hear your thoughts on smart contracts and DAOs in general.
Zuckerberg: Right now, I don't have any announcements. Here's what I would say. We have been involved in a number of projects around Novi. I believe we are the most forward-leaning big tech companies in this area. It was clear that we were interested and supportive of the space. We believe it has a vital role to play in the future.
People will be asking big questions about virtual goods in metaverse. Do they really have the right to own it? Is it content that can be taken away in the future? When money is involved, and people own it, all of this becomes more sensitive. They want to know their item won't be taken away.
Yes, I believe there is a place for more decentralization
I believe there is a very important role for NFTs, regardless of how they are currently conceived or whether it's just to decentralize entitlements across the metaverse. There won't be one system. However, I believe there is a place for greater decentralization. We will have more to discuss in this space as more of our projects mature.
I was wondering if Facebook is under scrutiny for controlling speech flow and natural tension, which can sometimes lead to people not liking it. Or is it because it's so top-down, with few people having any say in its operation or ability to make money from it? A lot of media scrutiny assumes that you aren't stopping all the bad. Or, that any platform with a negative net rating is a bad one.
Zuckerberg: In general, I believe the past five years have been an important learning period for me as well as the company. We had to solve many problems, including building AI systems that can identify harmful content in real time and take action, or building stronger privacy programs, encryption, and other things.
Many of these were things we had been passionate about in the company long before 2016. However, we really got a lot of them moving after 2016. Some of this was due to some scrutiny. Then we were more introspective and said, Hey, I think we should build better programs here. It's a difficult task to balance complex social equities with things like free speech and trying to address harmful material. It is impossible to do them both perfectly. It is impossible to do both. It's to find a way to balance it. This makes everyone unhappy. However, I am proud of the work they did. It's a world-leading effort. Anyone who is serious about this should acknowledge it. The sophistication of any other person is far less than the results and investments they have made.
However, I think it would be more beneficial to start building these things from the beginning when you talk about creating a new ecosystem. That was something we were serious about. The question now is what principles should be used. Privacy is an important principle. Safety is also important, especially when you are in an immersive environment. You want to be capable of saying, "Hey, this person is bothering my." You need to leave quickly or you want them to disappear. Interoperability, however, is another. The level of interoperability on mobile internet has been disappointing. We can hopefully do better in the next one.
Best of luck!
Zuckerberg: I dont know. I have talked about this over the years: Building these platforms around people and not apps. There is something to it where the atomic units of the system are like the embodied internet, and you're in it. The atomic unit is your avatar and digital goods. The different apps don't have to be completely different. These are just spaces you can teleport into.
This architecture should be fundamentally more open to interoperability if you set the right standards from the start. It is not an architecture where apps are the atomic unit, like the mobile platforms we use today. The assumption is that each app is unique and you can start from nothing in every one. It is how you design these apps and make them more user-centric that I think has a lot to do with that. Let's see. It will be a good idea to attempt to build these items from the front.
