Jeremy Stahl, senior editor at Slate, has seen many hearings on Capitol Hill. Even he said Tuesday's hearing before the House select committee on Jan. 6 Capitol riots was different. Four police officers gave testimony before Congress about the violence and scars they suffered. Stahl said that just watching these horrendous clips over and again is not enough. Stahl says that just seeing these horrendous clips over and over again is not the same as watching the person who was there to talk about the event and give their perspective. This conversation has been edited and condensed for clarity.AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementMary Harris: You could clearly see that Democrats wanted to make this investigation bipartisan. Liz Cheney, a Republican, was the second speaker after the chairman.Jeremy Stahl: Yeah. It doesn't matter if that alleviates any concern that this will be a purely political inquiry and all that. But I think it does more than the fact that they held a great hearing. Aquilino, Michael Fanone and Daniel Hodges were the witnesses. They had incredible, tragic, and horrifying stories to share. The hearing was a good opportunity for them to talk through their stories, give their perspectives, and then discuss what next steps should be taken in this committee. It didn't turn into a fight over procedures and cancel culture.AdvertisementInstead, you had Sgt. Gonell testified about being brutally assaulted, then returning home to his wife, where he couldn't hug her. He was also covered in bear spray and other poisons. Michael Fanone spoke of almost being beaten to death, and then begging for his own life, saying that he had children to escape the mob who had overthrown the Capitol. Daniel Hodges was the one who got trapped in the door, being crushed by the mob and then holding onto that until he was pulled out. Then you'll hear Harry Dunn, a Capitol Police officer, explain how he was accosted and how it happened. It was just wow. It was all just wow. They were able to tell their stories without any other nonsense.AdvertisementAdvertisementI was surprised that Officer Daniel Hodges, who spoke about Jan. 6 terrorists, claimed they were members of a cult. It was something I'm not used to hearing police officers speak that way.It seems like a reasonable line, to be dragged by a mob of thousands, beat you to death, almost kill you, while they wave these political flags in an attempt to achieve this political goal. At that point, I believe you may consider them terrorists. Yes. You know what? It is probably a good language. It is a language that more people should use, I believe, because it was a case domestic terrorism. It was violence for political ends. This is the definition of terrorist.AdvertisementObserving the testimony of these officers, it was obvious to me that they desire accountability. Harry Dunn, a Black officer, testified that if a hitman is hired and kills someone, the hitman goes to jail. The hit man is not the only one who goes to jail. It also includes the person who hired them. Jan. 6 was the day of an attack. They were sent by a hitman. You need to investigate this.AdvertisementWhat can this committee do to hold these officers accountable? Does that even fit in their brief?Bennie Thompson, chairman of the committee, has displayed very, very very, very, very good instincts thus far.AdvertisementWhat does that mean?They aren't playing around. Jeremy StahlThe way the first hearing was conducted and his opening statement, it was very somber and not exaggerated rhetoric. It was also straightforward and just the facts. Yesterday's hearing was presented yesterday. He also stated clearly after the hearing that he was going straight to subpoenas. This is something I have not heard from Democrats' previous oversight efforts. We won't waste time on letters asking people to help us. We won't waste our time giving you notice for two, three weeks to present your legal defense and block participation. We will send subpoenas directly at people. This was just after the Department of Justice announced that they were going to send subpoenas directly to people.AdvertisementAdvertisementDo you feel that this is a lesson from the impeachment?They are not playing around, I believe. They aren't playing around. They aren't playing around. If necessary, we will hold you in court for many months or years. They did. So subpoenas are not very effective.Now you have an administration explicitly stating they will cooperate. You, as members, have the power to subpoena White House archives. The DOJ says, "Yes, you can." There is a difference between not having to will alone, and the will feeling a bit more there, but will and ability. There are many differences.AdvertisementWhat can they do with that information?AdvertisementAdvertisementTruth and reconciliation are noble goals to me. Even if they don't find out what happened that day, and how it ended, I believe truth and reconciliation is a noble goal. It is essential. Its essential.However, I am unable to tell if it is enough for these officers. It's impossible to tell. I don't know.AdvertisementIt's a start. But youre right. You don't know.You often talk about how Democrats don't have the courage to do the right thing. After this hearing, is your view changing?I would like to see the subpoenas they send and to whom they send them. They have been doing an exceptional job so far in playing the hardball necessary to get the truth to the public. Although it sounds cheesy, truth is the key to democracy, society, and everything. Public officials must be willing to search for the truth and fight for it. It's a good place to start, as I mentioned.AdvertisementAdvertisementWhat is the next hearing of this committee?Some of the next steps include talking to those in leadership. This includes the Metropolitan Police and Capitol Police leaders. The most bizarre thing was that we didn't have reinforcements. We were only a few of them. The number of officers they had was very limited compared to the size of that crowd. They need to answer the question of how it got to the point that it was so large against so few officers, and without the support they needed to defend the seat of American democracy.Subscribe to the What Next Apple PodcastsEvery weekday, Mary Harris brings you more news.
