Mother and daughter, Cynthia Monteleone, share a deep love for running and competition. After they had both competed against biological men in track events they realized they had to do more to ensure equality.Cynthia Monteleone stated that everyone should compete. All athletes should compete. It is not possible to ban anyone. However, it is important to make a distinction in order to keep the sport fair and keep biological women from losing out on the best opportunities.Monteleone is a World Masters Athletics track champion and coaches girls track at the middle and high school levels in Maui, Hawaii. She faced off against a biological man in 2018 at a track competition held in Malaga, Spain. A year and a quarter later, her daughter faced another transgender competitor at her high school track meet.Margaret Monteleone stated that she was disappointed to have finished second to a biological man in the high school track meet. I had worked hard throughout the year just to train for this meet. I could have been first in the heat. It was disappointing for me to only be second.The mother and daughter now speak out for female athletes and fair competition. The Problematic Women podcast features their experiences running against biological men, and how they advocate for women's sports in the future.Today's show also features Gwen Berry, an Olympic trial athlete who turned her back to the U.S flag during the national anthem.As always, we will be crowning our Problematic Women of the Week.Virginia Allen: It is a pleasure to be accompanied by track athletes, mother and daughter, Cynthia Monteleone and Margaret Monteleone. Ladies, I am so grateful for your presence.Cynthia Monteleone says Aloha. We are grateful for the opportunity to be with you. We are grateful for the chance to speak out and use our voices.Allen: It's an honor to speak with you all. You say Aloha. You're down in Hawaii. I am a little jealous.Monteleone: Mahalo! We are so lucky to be able to live in such beautiful places.Allen: It's beautiful. It is beautiful. Both of you are track athletes. How did you get so passionate about running and how did you go on to become an athlete?Monteleone: Okay. As a child, I used to run all over the place. My grandmother lived just a few hundred yards from me in the Catskill Mountains of New York. I used to run all the time to her house. When someone asked me to do something, I would run. As a child, I knew I loved running and so did my daughter.She was doing it because she didn't have to. Then, let's just say it was ninth grade. My physical education teacher who also coached the track teams said it was around eighth grade. She said, "Oh, you should run track." You are a 400-meter runner. I say to her, Wow! I'm 45 and still a 400-meter runner.Allen: This is incredible. It's not an easy race. I've also run track and know that the 400 is the hardest race because coaches tell you it's a sprint.Monteleone: Yes.Allen: It's a long race.Monteleone: Yes. To run the 400 it takes hard work and sacrifice. There is a story about Usain bolt, who had a wager with his coach. He said that if he could run in the 100 fast enough, he wouldn't force him to train for 400. Because nobody wants the 400. It's a good thing. We enjoy the hard work. As a coach, I love the lessons hard work teaches.Fast forward, and I was invited to run track at college because I had done well in my high school. So, I was invited to run at the University of North Carolina Wilmington (a Division I school). I was ranked fifth on the East Coast in 500 indoor. If you think that the 400 is difficult, the 500 is.Then I just continued my career. I had three children. At 40 years old, my daughter told me that she wanted to run track in college with a scholarship, just like her father. I would love to be trained for the 400. That's how our story began.Allen: Yes. Allen: Yeah.Margaret Monteleone: I love the way my training pays off. I also love running in races and competing in competitions to see how I do. It can also provide me with scholarships to college and even gold medals. I love to travel and the sport itself is so much fun.Allen: That's really neat. You all did a documentary together with the Independent Womens Forum about your stories and how you have both competed against biological men in track events.Let's start at the beginning. Cynthia, I'm sure you have decided that as an adult you want to compete again. In fact, you qualified for Team USA in 2018 at the World Masters Athletics Championships in Spain.Before you left, and before the competition, you learned that you would be competing against a biological male. What was your reaction to that news?Cynthia Monteleone (English): I was simply curious about the fairness. I began to look into the rules in place and found the testosterone requirements. However, when I tried to ask who was checking this or who was deciding these rules I sometimes got some interest but it was then swept under the carpet. It was no, it wasn't, we can't talk about this.It was like I felt like the people I was speaking to were curious about me, and then were told to keep quiet. This was my feeling. When I arrived, I expected answers. I didn't have any answers about the fairness of it or how they would check if it was fair.I was told to keep quiet because I didn't want to speak up for my safety. So I replied, "Nope. That's not going to work." Because I want to hear the truth, I will continue speaking up.About 50 articles from medical journals or science articles a week is the minimum. So, I am familiar with the science and physiology of the endocrine and hormonal system. So, I knew something was wrong. These decisions were made even though biological males clearly have an advantage over women that is not based on testosterone.Yes, I was confused about why no one was offering me answers, and why they were telling my to keep quiet.Allen: What was the outcome of that race in 2018?Monteleone, That's a great question. It was back in the days when Facebook was not available when I first began to speak up. I'm not on Facebook anymore. But, I mentioned that women deserve fair playing fields. A psychologist had said, "Well, you're just mad because your race has been lost."And I replied, "Well, sorry, you didn't get the memo." I didn't lose. Although I lost to this person by a fraction of a second it doesn't mean that it wasn't an issue. Six months later, that same individual returned and stood on the podium for the medal my teammate could have received, as well as the prize money.These women are missing so many opportunities, even though they are competing in a shorter race. This is where things get complicated.In Hawaii, for example, the boys 400 meter relay had approximately 700 participants in 2019. OK? 350 could beat the state champion woman350. That means my lesson to my girls, that hard work pays off is that a mediocre male could beat a state champion woman350.What if they train and beat the elite female athletes? It is possible for a high school boy to beat the Olympic's most elite female athlete. It just doesn't make sense. It doesn't make sense.Yes, the critics will argue for one side or another.Allen: You can't. Margaret, this is something you've experienced personally. You were in high school at an exclusive school in Hawaii and competed against a biological male. Please tell me about this experience.Margaret Monteleone. In my freshman year of highschool, I was competing against a biological man in the 400-meter dash. This person had a distinct advantage, I knew. They were physically stronger and bigger than me. When I stood on the line to race the race, it was obvious that it was unfair.My race ended in second place, which was very disappointing for me and my team. One of my teammates said that track was no longer worth the effort. It's pointless if I am going to be outclassed by someone who is stronger than I and has an advantage.Allen: Yes. Allen: Yes.Monteleone: I think it was three or four seconds. It was easy to tell.Allen: Yes, it is. For those not familiar with timing in track, this is a huge amount of time for a 400-meter. This is very significant. Margaret, do you recall what went through your mind at the end?Monteleone: I felt a bit disappointed because I had worked so hard throughout the year just to train for my first ever meet. I can still remember being first and getting first in the heat. It was disappointing for me to see all my hard work paid off, even if I would have won.Allen: Cynthia, it's one thing to witness this in person to be able to compete against a biological male. It's quite another to see your daughter competing against a transgender competitor. How did you feel? Was that what you were thinking as you watched Margaret go to her biological father?Cynthia Monteleone I spoke to people about how they could file an OCR complaintOffice for Civil Rights. I was told that you cannot. It is important to make it clear to your listeners that you cannot file a complaint if someone tells them otherwise. Although you can file a complain, that is the kind of pushback I was immediately getting in regard to her running: No, you can't file a grievance.Yes, you can file a complaint. I am a citizen. I have the right to file a formal complaint. I filed a complaint. It took them all the way from February to November to reach their decision that the private school was not under the Office of Civil Rights' jurisdiction.What had happened was that all of the departments, regardless of whether it's the [Hawaii High School Athletic Association] [Maui Interscholastic League] [Department of Education], or the Department of Education which oversees [Maui Interscholastic League], were able to continue throwing the ball to each other.This is the reality we are seeing. Nobody wants to talk about it and nobody wants blame for it. They don't realize that we women will continue to speak up and be held responsible for discriminating against biological females.Allen: What do you think the reason is? Allen: Why do you think it has become a game where everyone is just passing the ball, and nobody is willing to make real decisions about this matter?Monteleone: I think it has become too politicized. It shouldn't be. I will tell you why. Because I know that everyone I know, Democrat and Republican, agrees that this is unfair.According to polling, this is a large number. I would guess that 80-90 percent of people, regardless their political affiliation, agree that it is impossible. They cannot be in the same group.It is polarizing because of certain individuals and associations. The current administration has certainly polarized it with their decisions and policies. It's unnecessary because everyone agrees this shouldn't be happening.Allen: Margaret, have you talked to your teammates about this matter? Are your school's athletes discussing this issue?Margaret Monteleone, my teammate and everyone, because they have all had to face this person, know the struggles of training so hard and seeing your hard work pay off. So, yes, I have received most support.Allen: That's great. This is great news. Cynthia, you mentioned that you coach women at all levels. What are the reactions of other women you work with? What are their opinions on the situation?Cynthia Monteleone Both of them won.Virginia Allen: Congrats! That's amazing.Monteleone: We are grateful. Both of them won first place. They not only made the team but also won the national title. They are just powerful women and they agree with me. You know what? Both have their own political beliefs and ideologies, but they agree that biological men cannot be in the female category.They will argue that science was their argument.Their argument is simple: We have to call them girls because that's what they want. There are no other arguments. This is just not possible. That's not okay. It's not commonsense.So, I encourage you to use your voice. You know what is right and wrong, and you should speak out about it.Allen: This is a very difficult issue, Cynthia. I believe so many people are afraid of speaking out about it. What would you say to someone who says it is unfair to deny transgender athletes the right to compete with their gender?Monteleone: To be precise, I believe everyone should compete. All athletes should participate in the competition. It is not possible to ban anyone. However, it is important to make a distinction in order to keep the sport fair and keep biological women from losing out on the best opportunities.If you only consider the struggles of trans athletes, you are really overlooking the struggle of female athletes who have worked so hard to reach that position. You could put in so much effort to become the No. If they identify as girls, however, there could be 350 boys who are state champions. It doesn't make sense. If youre number. You are clearly not as productive as the female at 349.Allen: What encouragement would you give to athletes or women who are watching this issue, or perhaps in a similar situation, and have to compete against biological men? What would you tell them? What should they do?Monteleone says to athletes: Have compassion and don't be afraid to speak up. The facts and science are right in front of you. You can get all the support that you need. All you have to do is use your voice. If everyone uses their voice, we will all be heard.Allen: What's next for all of you? Let's start with Margaret. Are you going to continue running, and really speak out about this issue?Margaret Monteleone: Yes. I intend to keep running. I intend to continue running in college. I hope to be awarded a scholarship. This is a topic I plan to continue speaking out about, as it is important for young girls in similar situations.It would be wrong for me not to speak up for other girls.Allen: Yes. It's bold of you to do that. Cynthia, will you continue to run yourself and coach?Cynthia Monteleone (Yes) I will continue running and keep competing. Some associations allow this, which I find problematic. I may just say "Hey, I don't want to compete at world level until you make fair playing fields."The No. As I have done in the past, I will still run the No. 1 World Time, but I am getting more and more disappointed in the rules that these associations are making based on emotions and not science.Allen: Wow! That was a great comment. We are grateful to you both for your willingness to be on the show and for speaking out. It is controversial, even though it shouldn't be. It is incredibly brave of you both to take a stand and be willing to share your personal stories.Cynthia Monteleone: Mahalo! We are grateful for you.Margaret Monteleone: We are grateful.Do you have a comment about this article? Send us an email at [email protected] with your comments. We may publish them in our We Hear You section. Include the article's URL or headline, along with your name and the address of your town and/or the state.
