Ken Williams, a teenager, walked into a Christian bookstore to find resources that would help him overcome his sexual attraction. He didn't find any.Williams wrote The Journey Out: How Jesus Away from Gay for people who are struggling with homosexuality and/or same-sex attraction years ago.Williams states that the book is for people who want to find a way out. I am not referring to people who are happy living an LGBTQ lifestyle. There are many people who are unhappy with this lifestyle. This doesn't satisfy the need. For those who feel the same, this feels impossible. It makes me feel disconnected from God.Williams, who is married to her fourth child, is passionate about helping others achieve the freedom they want.Williams is also a Pastor at Bethel Church, Redding, California. He leads the Changed Movement With Elizabeth Woning, which is a Christian organization that helps people leave homosexuality.Williams is on The Daily Signal Podcast to tell his story and explain how Christians can help those who are struggling with same-sex attraction.These stories are also covered by us:Former President Donald Trump had harsh words to say about William Barr, his former attorney general.The Supreme Court has ruled that it will not hear appeals from lower courts regarding bathroom access for transgender students who have graduated.Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif. House Minority Leader, said he has a plan for cracking down on Big Tech companies.Listen to the podcast or read the slightly edited transcript.Virginia Allen: Ken Williams is a great friend and colleague. Ken is a pastor at Bethel Church, Redding, California. He is also the co-founder and chief executive of the Changed Movement. This Christian organization is based in California. It works with those who want to leave the LGBTQ+ lifestyle and are experiencing same-sex attraction. Ken is also the author and editor of The Journey Out: How Jesus Left Gay.Ken, we are so grateful that you were here.Ken Williams: It's an honor. Virginia, thank you.Allen: You were on the podcast about two years ago. We shared some of your journey and your struggles with same-sex attraction as a young man. Your story is now told in The Journey Out, a book you've written.We would love to hear about your childhood and teen experiences that led you to think, OK, I'm struggling with the same-sex attraction. Then, we can sort of see what that journey was.Williams: Yes, thank you. My experience shows that homosexual desire formation is often multifactorial. This was my experience. It is very evident when you look back at my life.I was the short, scrawny guy so I didn't fit in with other guys. Boys are taught to use their strength and push the limits. I was smaller. It was a struggle.I believe that I was wired and called to be a pastor right from my birth. I believe God's gifts and callings are similar. So I wanted to speak deeply. Boys don't want to talk deeply, 7-year olds. This is why I feel more at ease with girls.The most important thing was that I was exposed to hardcore homosexual pornography while playing in a field with a few boys. One of the boys opened a bootbox that was just out there, and I saw what caused me to lose my respect for men. Although I won't be able to describe what I saw it is worse than you might expect. Dishonorable and degrading are what I saw.At that point, I had lost a lot respect for men. They mocked me, and I was struggling to keep up.A few of them also initiated touching and other things. They did what they read in those magazines. Now, I feel shame deeply because I didn't intend to. I feel shame at a very deep level because I had no intention.At 8 years old, I was saved. I am in a very dramatic time in my life, because I am in love with Jesus. I wanted to be like him, please him, and all that. But, I was surprised by something I didn't expect.Allen: You're a tiny child. This is beyond your ability to comprehend.Williams: I have never been talked to about pornography. I was unaware of what it was until it was explained to me.My life took a dramatic turn at that moment. Now, I just want to push masculinity aside because it seems wrong. It didn't feel godly or noble to my eyes. The problem is that I was male. Therefore, when you tried to push masculinity away from me, I pushed it away.Therefore, I was always looking for me in another man. There are many expressions of homosexuality and struggle. My life was codependent. Because my first sexual experience was with males, the search to find me in another person had become sexualized.It is impossible to find me in another person. To me, this means that God must reveal who he made me to be. Instead of looking for it early in God, I tried to find it in these guys.At 17 years old, I feel suicidal. I felt very alone. It felt like no one knew me.Allen: Yes, yes. You talk about how you reached that breaking point. Then he replied.Williams: He was like, Ken, you are not gay. I was like, Okay, that feels good. But, I thought, What do I do?Allen: Yes.Williams: It's because I think that it was very clear on those nine pages that this is part of my struggle. He said, "We're going to tell our parents." I replied, "Oh, no, no." We are not going to do this.This is 1980s. This is not something you should tell anyone. I had never met a gay person. I hadn't heard one comment about homosexuality that wasn't dramatic.We did it that night and they cried with us for a few hours. We shared our feelings and wept. It was wonderful. My life was changed forever that day. It was something I felt years ago. The Lord taught me that unconditional love is the only way to experience it.Many people, especially LGBTQ, feel trapped in this life for many decades, because they have never felt safe enough to share their experiences. As we know from Scripture, you can confess your sins to one another in order to be healed.Because I was not aware of my condition, I wasn't receiving unconditional love. After I disclosed my condition, I was able receive the unconditional love my parents showed me.Allen: Yes. What was the journey between that point at age 17 and today? You are married and have children. It was over in an instant. The same-sex attraction that you shared between you and your spouse has ended. Or was it a long and difficult journey?Williams: I don't believe it has to take as long as mine. Back then, there weren't many resources. I wrote The Journey Out, thejourneyout.me, to help anyone looking for it. I wanted that book to be the one that I couldn't find.This is the part I did not tell you. I had been to the Christian bookstore right before I wrote my letter to my pastor seeking for a resource. My first time I felt suicidal was as soon as I walked out of the Christian bookstore. To find the answer, I wrote the book.What was the question you asked me just now?Allen: Since you are married now and have children, how did you get to the point that I felt attracted to women?Williams: Yes. It was a journey. It all began by being connected to a counselor. My parents were the first to say that. They asked me what I wanted. I replied, "Well, what are your desires?" It's not that I have prayed a thousand time and tried to change how I feel, but it doesn't work.So I began seeing a Christian counselor. I was 17 years of age, and I was minor. After I shared my feelings with my parents, I felt less suicidal. I also had a counselor who I could talk to about anything and was not going to be rejected. I found a safe space to process my feelings and walked with him every week for five years. That was the beginning.I learned all about God's grace. It was аbout: Yes, okay, you have some sin and you are struggling. Ken, God loves you. That was vital.Then, after a five-year battle with illness, a friend of mine said to me, Ken, God doesn't want you sick. The Bible is full of healing, including physical healing.He touched me and prayed. It was a long story. I had an amazing encounter with God. All the pain went away. For the first time in five year, I was pain-free. So, I don't have this illness anymore.That was so dramatic that I realized God is good. He didn't want me to get sick. If that is true and God has given instructions in Scripture regarding sexuality, and if God has said homosexuality is not to be condoned and it's considered sin, then he must have a solution. He isn't crazy. He isn't a liar. He can always find a solution, even if he is wrong.So I set out on a quest to learn more about him. How much can he know and what can he offer me. Psalm 103 is one of my favourite passages in Scripture. It's almost like forgetting all of his benefits. All your ailments are healed, your life is saved from ruin, and all of these things. So I followed his lead. I did as instructed.Like you said, it didn't happen overnight. It did happen. I went to a ministry school for three year and experienced the transformation by the renewal of my mind. Because I saw how many lies I believed.Just because I had an unpleasant experience, and was inappropriately touched, doesn't mean I wasn't who I was. This did not mean I was the most authentic and deepest version of myself. Because of what I experienced, a new pathway was created in my brain. So I was able just to go deep with God and, by seeing more of him, begin to discover who I was.Allen: Yes, yes.Ken Williams is our guest. He's the author of The Journey Out: The How I Followed Jesus Away from Gay. The Changed Movement is led by you. You travel with people who have been through the same things as you. How did you get to the point where you decided that this was your ministry? In a way that allows me to travel with others who live this same life as I did.Williams: Yes. I was part of the leadership team for a men's purity group in my church. This is probably what started 12 or 13 years ago. That was where I found my greatest fulfillment. My wife and I have been married for 15 years. We have four children. It's so wonderful to see God do something in your life and help others who are at the same place.That was the first time I had been able to serve in that men's ministry. I realized that I had passion for this job. Wow! I feel like I have a sense for destiny. I'd be the featured speaker in that group about once every eight weeks. It would be like I was alive. And then I realized, Oh my goodness, there are so much people out there who don't know what I know, and they really need encouragement.There was a podcast that I had heard about, and I met Elizabeth Woning, an additional guest. We started to compare notes with Elizabeth, another friend. We would meet up for coffee every week to talk about God's blessings, what we have learned from Him, and how we came out of our LGBTQ experiences. Then we started ministering together.Then, in 2018, California attempted to pass a therapy ban which would have made my book illegal. It would have stopped all of the help I received from my therapist. We couldn't resist that bill because it would have caused serious damage to people's lives. People would have ended their lives because they couldn't find hope. It also shut down the Gospel. It would have made it illegal, making it impossible for people to follow the path that God has commanded them to.As we began speaking out against the legislation, it became viral on social media. People saw that there were 30 people on the Capitol steps in Sacramento, sharing their testimony. The news picked them up and ran with them. Now, thousands of people are traveling together in a Facebook group that shares the same experience.Allen: It is so powerful. What about legislatively? We are seeing more conversations about LGBTQ and gender identity in society. What pieces of legislation are you all watching? You've probably been to D.C. this week, talking with legislators. What are your main concerns?Williams: I am very supportive of the Fairness for All [Act] and Equality Act. Although they have pretty names, when you dig deeper, you will see that they are very dangerous and very controlling. This is really the government controlling sexuality.I can understand the need to provide protections to LGBTQ-identified persons and I am all for them being treated with dignity. No one should be treated unfairly or discriminated against. We are seeing that a person who is LGBTQ is on the brink of having more freedoms than the rest of us. To be honest, I think I have more freedoms than I do.Because we are counter-cultural, we are often cast as villains. This is clearly not what we want. However, I cannot accept a worldview which says that someone who has ever experienced confusion about their sexuality or had a moment of homosexual desire is who they are.It is a way that has brought me joy and many others. I couldn't experience the joy, the connection and bonding I felt with God when I had my own plan for sexuality that I could access if needed.Fairness for All, the Equality Act and Fairness for All, restrict rights of conscience and could potentially remove some freedoms. They certainly interfere with my religious practice. It's literally the government saying, "These are your options for sexuality, if this has happened to you."This would lead to doctors being forced to disregard their conscience when treating patients who, let's say, are seeking to have their sex changed. It would also prevent them from saying, "No, I don't believe Do no harm. I cant offer this."This is one of the most important. Some are focused on transgender issues, which would be extremely harmful.Christians must stand up and lovely say no. Go to their school boards and say "Well, you know what?" If you plan to implement queer theory in the curriculum, or if comprehensive sex education is being offered to elementary students (maybe even kindergarten), then it is time to speak up. I would like to have the opportunity to discuss what it means to be confident, healthy and happy as a woman and man. These are the things I want.This is what I have in my heart right now. It will take some legislative action, but also grassroots support. But, I'm going to stand up for Christian morality.Allen: Yes. Allen: Yes. Are you feeling like legislators are listening to what you have to say? Are you feeling a positive movement forward?Williams: Yes, I do. There is still a lot of work to do. We have a lot of work ahead of us, let's be honest. There are many voices, but major media shuts down our voices.If I post anything on Facebook about this issue, there are four likes. Two years ago, there were 200. My book was not canceled and I am being censored by my friends. It is still available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. However, most of my friends' books are. There are forces we must reckon with.It is encouraging to see Washington listening to us. We were recognized by a variety of legislative offices and groups in D.C., and then in other states. They are realizing that if we don't stand up now, and if our society doesn't start to look out for the welfare and not just follow the lines of woke culture, we will lose a lot. There will be many people who are left behind.Allen: Yes, yes. The book, The Journey Out is available on Amazon and Barnes & Noble. Let's talk a bit about the purpose of this book.Williams: I wrote this book in the beginning, dedicating it. This book is for people who want to find a way out. It is your choice to buy it. I am not referring to people who are happy living an LGBTQ lifestyle. There are many people who are unhappy with this lifestyle. It does not satisfy the need. It doesn't scratch the itch.Although I cannot predict what your future will look like, I do know that God is able to provide a greater, more abundant, and better than anything we could ask or imagine. Those are his words, not mine. They can believe in the Bible and all things are possible.When we surrender everything to the Lord, it's amazing how much he can do for us. He can show us the true, deepest, most authentic version of ourselves that we have lived for so many years, but are unaware of. This is when we meet him in the places I describe in the book.Allen: Yes. Both the fact that you shared your story in this book is wonderful, but I also feel that you only offer practical tools. Talking about vulnerability, surrender, and the encouragement to change is possible. What made you choose to create it in the way you did?Williams: I felt that I needed it.Allen: Yes.Williams: This is what I had been looking for. I would be like, "Oh, well, you just have to follow the Lord" or "You just got to hear God." I needed to be able to move around a little in my discipleship.It was so simple that I finally felt it. Practical things like how to remove triggers from your daily life that are not necessary were also included. It's amazing how easily the enemy can convince you that you are something. He is a liar. From the Garden of Eden, we can see that the enemy whispered into Adam's ears, lying to them about their identity, future, and needs.We need to know how to recognize the lies and how we can stop them. What can we do to remove things from our lives that are not necessary? What is more important, how can we make our lives easier by incorporating the things that will be essential into our daily lives?This is because so many people attempt to do it on their own. Because they don't feel safe inviting their community to it, they won't invite them. Then we are picked off. We are often isolated as an enemy's strategy. Then, we weren't very strong on our own. But, boy, God does have great people that God can help us build a community around ourselves. So I included that practical wisdom in the book.Allen: That's great. Allen: That's so great.Williams: Yes. Follow us on Instagram. Look for Changed Movement on Instagram. You can also request to be added to that group.Allen: This is amazing. For all our listeners, this book is The Journey Out. It's called How I Followed Jesus Away from Gay. Ken, I appreciate your time. Thank you so much for coming on the show.Williams: Virginia, thank you.Do you have a comment about this article? Send us an email at [email protected] with your comments. We may publish them in our We Hear You section. Include the article's URL or headline, along with your name, town, and/or state.
