This week's episode of Working features Isaac Butler speaking with Marcus Watson, an intimate coordinator and choreographer for television, movies, and theatre. They talked about how they approach conversations about kissing and simulated sexual sex with actors, directors, and the types of trainings and qualifications required for the role. This transcript has been reduced to make it more concise.Isaac Butler: How can you tell actors that it is OK to discuss boundaries in your work?AdvertisementMarcus Watson: It's funny. As an actor, you learn to be the clay. You mold at the will of the person molding you. Actors, dancers, and performers have suppressed the little voice in your head that says something is wrong. They've taught you to be brave and get out of your comfort zone. This is where trauma can sometimes occur, as you're not listening to what your body tells you. So many times, I've come in and said, "Great, let's talk about boundaries," and actors would be like, "No, no, no, I'm totally fine, I am totally good, I have no boundaries."AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementWhen we get into the scenes, and I allow it to sit, I don't contradict it. Who am I to say you have no boundaries? This is not my position. My position is to listen. We will continue to discuss the details and determine what scene is appropriate. Let's say that this scene involves undressing and kissing. We are not performing any simulated acts but it is undressing. There may be some groping and kissing. Then I thought, "Let's make some boundaries." This scene does not require any touching of the groin.AdvertisementThis may not be true for every scene you make, but it is for the context of that scene. The same goes for, "Do we kiss with our tongues?" Do we bite our lips? What are your limits with regards to the type of kiss you'd like to have? I'm fine with a good-natured kiss. What happens if they bite your lips? Or what were our boundaries so we knew exactly what was acceptable and what was unacceptable. I am breaking down and being very specific in the context of the scene we are shooting. This helps open up the discussion about boundaries.AdvertisementIf you are just performing a kissing scene, your entire body is not required. However, if you are performing simulated sex scenes, your entire body is fine. It's not necessary for them touching your feet. There is no reason to do certain things in one scene. There are actors who will come in and say, "I don't like breathing in my ears, touch my belly button and make tickly movements on my legs," while others might be like, "Ah, no, you can see."AdvertisementThey can find boundaries while running the scene, and then be like: Oh, I thought this was okay with me, but it isn't.It is not consent if it can't be revoked. Although consent is fully revocable and you can change the situation, it is not consent if you cannot retract it. You can have your boundaries changed by the person in the room. If I am on a sofa and not a bed, it changes how I feel about this scene. Consent is a very personal thing. If anything happens, it can affect the level of consent. It is possible to say, Nothing has changed in the scene, but it turns out, that I am in a different place today than I was yesterday. Marcus, you are right. I had more boundaries, and they are here, and we can talk about it that way.AdvertisementAdvertisementYou will need to revise an idea in every creative field. The creative process is not complete without revision. You may have to revise ideas in significant ways, depending on the boundaries of others. Could you tell us a little bit about the revision process?It is important to not question something that needs to be changed. The person who says a boundary has to be able to justify or explain why it was put in place. It is up to us to find a way to keep the shot moving forward, even if it becomes a barrier. If that happens, we can change the scene and discuss it with the directors and writers. It is rare that this happens, because so much effort has been put into communicating the information beforehand and creating a safe space.AdvertisementWhat usually happens is that a boundary changes or is uncomfortable. If my modesty clothing is not allowing this move to take place, then we need to change it. I ask the director what is happening and he responds. This allows us to continue telling this story, and we can sell it in this manner. Next, it's discussing what actors are comfortable with, clarifying new boundaries, then going to the director saying, This is what you have, these are options. I think, "Okay, great, we could do it this manner, we have the ability to change it this direction, we can adjust angles slightly, and we can do this." I have Plan A, B, C, and D.AdvertisementAdvertisementI'll say, These are the new boundaries. Sometimes, the director has an idea and I'm like, That fits. These are my solutions, let's do it this way. Sometimes, it is about being flexible and able to think on the spot.Listen below to Marcus Watson's full interview. Subscribe to Working on Apple Podcasts and Spotify to hear the entire interview.
