This video was posted by Carl Nassib, a NFL defensive end, on Instagram last week. He is holding the camera in a selfie-style position. He can be seen behind him on a bright green lawn. He says, in the most subtle way, "I just want to take one quick moment to say, I am gay."The video is so subtle that it's hard to believe why this is a huge deal. This is because no active NFL player has ever said it out loud. Never. Retired football players have made their way out though. Dave Kopay is one such retired football player. He is now 79.AdvertisementKopay says that I was the first ballplayer to be out in all of the sports, not only in the United States but around the globe. Kopay enjoyed watching the video by Carl Nassib. It would be foolish of me to say that I was envious. But, I know how the world has changed.AdvertisementAdvertisementThese are just a few of the many ways that the world has changed. In the 70s when Kopay was first released? His parents denied ever seeing him again. Reporters asked him ridiculous questions. Kopay said that people were blaming me in the papers, which was very painful. Kopay was able to come out, which made his life much easier. However, it meant that he had to give up his dream of coaching football. He was just unable to get hired. Instead, he started his family's flooring business. Even though it has been many years since he spoke out, Kopay still has some advice for Carl Nassib. You know that the National Football League did not help me in any way.AdvertisementLZ Granderson is an ESPN Radio host as well as a columnist at the Los Angeles Times. I spoke to him on Monday's What Next episode. He is also gay. Granderson was also openly gay. I asked him if the NFL has made enough changes to allow for this player. This edited version of our conversation was condensed to make it more concise.Mary Harris: How did you react to Carls' announcement?AdvertisementLZ Granderson. I have been involved in this discussion of gender identity and sexual orientation in sports for many decades. Since the 90s, I have been writing about it. All of my work was geared towards the idea that one day a male athlete in any of the three major sports would be able to play while also being a writer. This week, that was true. Carl was my happy boy. Carl made me happy beyond my wildest dreams. Carl was a joy to me. Then I thought about all those children this will benefit, and then I thought of my own journey. All that joy came out of me in the form of tears.AdvertisementNassib was already a prominent player in the NFL, as he was a walk on to his college football team. He made it to the pro ranks despite all odds.He is a pioneering, me-against the-world type of guy. Walk-ons don't make it to the NFL. It is a great thing that he keeps reminding people that he is a walk-on. It's easy to assume that he's more fortunate than others because he is well-known and known by everyone. When he speaks about being a walk on, he is also reminding people of his past. He was not only in the closet while he fought for his athletic career. He was not recruited. He was not wooed. He had to fight and scrap. He had to fight and scrape. The statement was made during off-season. Camp is still available for preseason. The regular season is still available. There are still many things he can do first. Although he came out, he has not been the first openly homosexual player to play on Sunday. There is more to come. He isn't the first openly homosexual player to make a poor play that could have cost him his game. There are more to come. He might not have won the match yet. He has more to do. He still has layers to peel in front of the rest of the world. This is risky.AdvertisementAdvertisementYou're pointing out that this is only the beginning. He makes this statement because he's part of a league that has historically been hostile to gay players. After watching Nassibs video, one reporter noticed that he had asked an NFL coach not too long ago if gay players would be accepted into the league. The coach replied that no, as nobody wants to share a shower with a homosexual person. He didn't even use the term "gay person". He used a slur.It wouldn't surprise me if someone wants to take a shower with us. Showering with us is a favorite pastime for many guys. There will always be people that say things, would try and pass laws, or would attempt to use Scripture. There will always be people who would discredit us, dehumanize and try to wipe us out. This is not going away. It's not surprising that in 2013, a reporter discovered someone from this tribe.AdvertisementCan we talk about how the NFL has dealt with sexuality in the past? It was difficult and, of course, there are no other active players who have come out. However, retired players and recruits have. Dave Kopay was the first NFL player to come out as gay. Let's talk about what he did and how it was received. This was in 1975.AdvertisementFirst, I'd like to say that the NFL has dealt with sexuality since its inception.Why would you say this?The cheerleaders at the sidelines will tell you that the stories of boys are boys. The stories of domestic violence are everywhere. The NFL has made a lot of statements about gender and sex.AdvertisementHowever, this is a very cis-het perspective.Yes, exactly. We need to make this clear because some will argue, "Why do we care about his sleeping arrangements?" It's not a huge deal. Straight men make it big. We care about who our partners sleep with. We show photos of our spouses and their girlfriends at the stands. We talk all the time about sexuality in the NFL. It begs the question: Why is it that homophobes are stopping gay people talking about their sexuality. This is the real question. How will the NFL navigate this conversation now Carl is out? They've been trying to avoid this conversation ever since Dave Kopay came out in his autobiography in the 1970s.AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementWhat was the reaction of the league to this?They tried to pretend it wasn't there, even though he wrote about other lovers who were also in the NFL. Even though Paul Tagliabue was a former NFL commissioner, they tried to pretend it wasn't there. They tried to pretend it wasn't there even though Roger Goodell, the current commissioner of the NFL, is openly gay. The NFL has a long history of being oblivious to controversial or uncomfortable issues.One thing that I can say is different about their handling of Carl Nassib was that they weren't reactionary as that has been their mantra in relation to social justice issues. Instead, they were proactive. They immediately issued a statement. They were more proactive than others in letting their fans know where they stand, unlike so many other instances where they hoped it would go away and then apologize when it doesnt.AdvertisementLet's discuss Michael Sam. This All-American from Missouri announced his homosexuality in 2014, just before the NFL draft. The St. Louis Rams picked Sam up in the final round. On national television, he broke down and kissed the boyfriend. He never played in a regular-season game. He retired from football in 2015.AdvertisementIt doesn't necessarily mean you'll be drafted. The earlier you are drafted, the less likely you are to be drafted. While I admire the fact that he came out before the NFL draft, and I also appreciate his history of being drafted openly gay, I am also a sports journalist and know how difficult it can be to play on Sundays. You already have so many things to deal with when you are a seventh-round draft pick. You were also the first openly homosexual player so you have another layer to manage. You want to make reality TV. You are doing way too much. It's no wonder that you felt the mental health component was too complicated because you were adding too many.AdvertisementWhich were the biggest mistakes made by the team?How do I begin? The team failed to provide enough support for Michael Sam when it came to Michael Sam. They tried to find good players and were aware of their statement. It doesn't feel like they did a sufficient job making sure that he had people to talk with who weren't interested only in him, or in fame.AdvertisementAre you unsure if he needed the mental health support because of his coming out? Or because he was small and trying to transition?AdvertisementBecause he had been in the closet for so many years, he needed mental health support. In many ways, being in the closet can make you feel worse. When you consider some of the things that he shared about his childhood, including the attitudes towards gay people growing up and the fact that he didn't feel like he belonged there, it is clear that coming out can be a difficult journey for your mental health. Being out front of cameras is a mental journey. It is a difficult journey for many people to understand the experience of being a football player in front of cameras.AdvertisementI was curious if you could compare the NFL's long struggle with sexuality and its close-mindedness to other struggles that the league has faced, such as with race. One sportswriter talked about Dave Kopay's experience of being abandoned by the league. He compared it to Colin Kaepernick who was a darling until he began kneeling. It begs the question: Would you also combine these two experiences?AdvertisementThe NFL's usual response to controversy is silence and hope it goes. They only get involved when there's nothing else to run or hide. It doesn't matter what type of controversy it is, the NFL believes that waiting until it passes over is the best PR/branding strategy. It's a very profitable strategy financially. This is why I am saying this. It's still the No. Because it is still the No. 1 sport in the country. They are the most watched television events. Super Bowl attracts around 100 million viewers.AdvertisementHowever, that doesn't mean the NFL cannot change its stance under the right public pressure.You would be able to believe right now that Roger Goodell was the one kneeling first, fighting for Black lives. This is how they talk about it. We all know the story of how it began. They don't lead in this space but once they get there, kicking, dragging, screaming, and all that good stuff, they do lend their resources. Since Kaepernick started his protest, they have donated millions, if not hundreds of millions, to causes Kaepernick cared about. They tried to make the donations as though it were their idea, but they didn't acknowledge that Kaepernick was out of the league. This is how the NFL operates. They want to keep moving forward, ignore their mistakes, and not address them in any real or significant way. They want to continue the story and act as though they've always been there.AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementYes, they did. I saw a photo of Dave Kopay on social media.Listen, girl. They don't stop.And I was like, "Wow, OK."If you are able to help Dave Kopay and want to honor his bravery and achievements back in the 70s then you might name an award in his honour and explain why it is there. You can also be proactive about addressing the current situation from a legislative standpoint. Anyone can tweet a photo of Dave Kopay. You are the NFL. You have the real power. You are allowing more than 250 antiLGBTQ bills to be introduced across the country. You don't say a word but you want Dave Kopay to be up on Pride Month and show that you are committed to the cause. To truly believe you are an ally, I need you to join us in the trenches. We need you to make a strong statement to the Supreme Court when it says that discrimination is allowed against same-sex couples.AdvertisementAdvertisementDoes the NFL really have a problem with this? While some would argue that it is the macho culture of the NFL, would you disagree?It's a mixture of many things. It is a combination of many things. You throw like a woman, you hit like an adult, and blah,blah,blah. These lessons are unfortunately learned through sports at an early age. It is not the NFL. We are trying to eliminate this toxic element from sports because it does not benefit anyone.AdvertisementThis is a problem everywhere. But is it a particular problem with the NFL? Some people have pointed out that the NFL is one of the most militaristic and hierarchical organizations in the world. This might explain why it has taken so long for an active player to simply declare that they are gay.The militaristic approach to the NFL is not what makes it unique in this market. It was the structure and terms of the contracts. There was no security. You can't cut your contract after five years if you don't have the contract for five more. This is part of the calculation for professional athletes and NFL players. How will this affect my ability to make money, grow my business and build my brand? Because the NFL contracts were not guaranteed, you risk losing your entire earning potential and being cut.AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementSee what happened to Colin Kaepernick's career. He was not resigned and was not able to continue his career. This was the profession he had dreamed of all his life. The league decided that the starting quarterback of the NFL, who led us to the Super Bowl, wasn't worthy to be in the league. They try to convince us that it was because of his play, as if we were fools. If you are a closeted NFL player, you will be nervous if you see something like this. You don't want to lose your career. So I believe that structure and compensation play a greater role in the NFL's struggles in this area than the approach of coaching or the team structure.AdvertisementDid it differ for Nassib, or? It was a five-year contract, you said.Before he made his announcement, he had the contract in his hand. It looks very suspicious that the Raiders will cut him if they do. Colin Kaepernick began his protest in his last year. He didn't have a contract for next season, and no one offered one. He has a contract with Carl. Because Carl is in the league, it will be very difficult for either the Raiders nor the NFL to remove him from the league. Carl is playing on Sundays unlike Michael Sam, who has never played. He has a contract, unlike Colin Kaepernick. The culture has also changed in America. We were paying more attention. We have more allies and it will be difficult for them to tell Carl that he can't play anymore since he came out. He was still playing perfectly when he was in his closet.AdvertisementAdvertisementWe should also mention that the response to his coming out has been overwhelming positive. It's amazing to see that his jersey was the most popular item in the league within the first 24 hours after Carl Nassib came out as gay. This is a sign that people are making a decision and voting with their money. The NFL is sure to respect that.They are very respectful of the money. We are on the right track. This is not the end of the story. The NFL has seen a significant improvement in the last few years. We don't know how much the NFL fan has changed. We don't know how advertisers will feel about it. I'm sure they would love to make rainbow T-shirts. What are they going do when people organize and claim that this isn't right?AdvertisementIt's amazing that the NFL tweeted Carls Name and said they were here to help you. But are they really here to help us? Is it for the community Carl said he is a part of? What happens if a slur is shouted in a football arena? Is it possible for them to expel the homophobic person from the building? They will ignore them. Is it possible for them to help the people being ushered out by staff? These people make very, very little and are there to make the experience pleasant for everyone. How comfortable will they be to enforce the rules when there are slurs being hurled and drinking is rampant? Is the NFL ready to provide support for these individuals in order that they feel confident about enforcing these rules.AdvertisementAdvertisementAdvertisementThe NFL still has a lot of work to do regarding how it handles this information. Initial response was excellent. Now comes the hard work. Social media reinforcement should not be equated with tangible cultural policies or cultural changes. This is still a work-in-progress. This is something that you will need to wait for.I'm sure there are many more gay NFL players than we know.Yes. Yes, I can confirm this for you.You are well aware of them.Yes.Do you encourage gay players to speak out when you're talking to them?My approach has been to talk about my reasons for coming out, how that has benefited me and how it has benefited others that I know. And how it can benefit their lives. One of my favorite jokes was that I used to tell some of them, "Listen, your heterosexual counterparts are currently landing in cities, hitting Strip clubs, and getting sex every moment they can." You're in your hotel room, eating takeout, and hoping that no one notices. You don't want them to have this moment in their lives, but you are living in fear in your hotel room. I'm trying to add some humor to the situation. However, I'm also serious. I've had the pleasure of hanging out with a lot of straight players, especially in the NFL. Women are just as eager to play.Subscribe to the What Next Apple PodcastsEvery weekday, Mary Harris brings you more news.
