During Barack Obama's first term, a lot of people in the US government believed that we could get back to the moon without the help of billionaires.
The Space Launch System is an enormous and staggeringly expensive rocket that is poised to return human beings to the Moon for the first time since the early 1970s.
The project isn't without its critics, especially as the company prepares to test a rocket that is more powerful than the SLS. The book's themes of sexism in the industry and her relationship with old coworkers are just some of the topics discussed in the book.
What do you think people think about NASA?
People think that NASA has a different administration. "You're just off on one thing and the reason we haven't made progress is because a new president came in and changed it" is a common criticism.
New presidents come in. NASA is receiving government funding. Some people in NASA don't feel like they are part of the administration. Lobbying members of Congress who have supported their programs isn't ethical for government employees.
When a president comes in with a transition, they usually just look at the status of everything. They never were going to change the programs that they uncover.
You pulled no punches when talking about NASA Administrator Bill Nelson.
I pulled a lot of punches. There isn't anything personal in there.
Did you get any backlash?
I haven't. There were 1500 people at the recent industry space NASA event. We call it space ball when we get a block of tickets to a baseball game. This is the first time since the book came out that I've gone.
The senior NASA people were there, but Senator Nelson was not. The person who was there was from NASA. I spoke to a lot of NASA people. The book was very well received. Many in the Space Force and the military side of space say that this is important because it is happening on our side as well.
It was mind blowing. I am aware that there were a lot of people who didn't come up to me.
I was going into it just to recognize that this is controversial. Policy discussions are needed. The people who are still supporting the space launch system are not bad people. Programs that are not sustainable were given to them. They are proud of the progress and want to see it succeed.
The SLS is something that is not sustainable. Do you think it presents a serious opportunity for space exploration, or is it just too expensive and obsolete by the time it arrives?
I think it's the other way around. It is not sustainable.
It would have been different if it had been launched by the year it was advertised and for less than the price it is now. I was not very sure that would happen. The people who were selling that program believed they could match it and have a recurring launch cost of $500 million.
Even though I didn't want it to progress, it had some potential. I don't think the public is going to find it to be anything like what we did 50 years ago, because they added seven years and over $10 billion dollars.
It was sold to NASA a number of times. Can you tell me a little more about that? Is it possible that they were aware that it was not realistic?
At one point, a Boeing executive stood in my office and told me that the company could do a $6 billion space program in five years. He didn't think it was funny.
He had a bad back, so he was standing, and I was standing as well. "You can't believe that" I said. I don't think you think that's true. You have to know that he is a serious person. He wasn't going to budge.
The $6 billion figure was looked at by NASA and they thought it might be $8 billion. The hill pushed it to $10 billion. What is this thing now?
Shaw didn't know. That is a great question. A person should ask him.
When I was at NASA, I said that the SLS would slip a year or two. NASA said that she was wrong. The head of SLS for Boeing said it was ahead of schedule. They said that it would launch in 2017).
Were they telling the truth? They might have thought they could do that.
If not with SLS, do you think the future of spaceflight will be with private companies?
spaceflight is a lot more than that. I was focused on space launch because we had not accomplished the goal of lowering the cost to go to and fro. The government's incentives were not going to lower costs, innovate, or expand markets.
I don't try to be critical of the spaceflight industry because they owe value to their shareholders and they wanted to keep them. It's the government's responsibility to encourage the right behavior.
I'm not sure about the broader market and when those costs will come down. NASA is in a hybrid system where they're contracting in some ways, in a fixed price situation, where I don't think this would be too successful if we didn't have billionaires willing to invest some money.
The rest of the industry is trying to figure out how to make that system work. I don't know how to do that. I don't think the spaceflight industry is ripe for commercialization.
Do you think NASA is a sexist institution?
I don't. We can do more to advance equity, diversity, and inclusion.
I think there are more women in leadership roles. I think the government has done a better job than the private sector. You have to have the intention because we've had these laws.
Do you believe in aliens or have you seen evidence of them?
I think it's more difficult to imagine that we are the only life in the universe than it is to believe in extraterrestrial life. I don't know how far it has evolved.
NASA's programs are more focused on finding life forms that are compatible with the kind of life we know about. The Search for Extraterrestrial Intelligence program was always in my favor. The public is interested in the search for extraterrestrial intelligent life, because they pay for NASA. We don't send humans to do that so these programs are not expensive.
There are only a few things that can take us to the next level. The theme of my book is that we learned we're in this together after we went to space. If you want to hammer that home, you need to know that there are other life forms out there that are not like us. I apologize to Gene Roddenberry.
I think we would do well to know that we have more in common than we have different things.
NASA is years behind the moon landing schedule, according to a report.
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