Even on the day of the Capitol riot, Rudy Giuliani was still doubtful if Mike Pence had the power to overturn the election, says ex-Trump lawyer

Eric Herschmann, a former Trump White House lawyer, said on Thursday that Rudy Giuliani was still debating whether Mike Pence had the power to overturn the votes in the 2020 election.

The testimony of Herschmann was aired on Thursday during the third of six public hearings. The session on Thursday focused on the pressure the Trump camp was putting on the vice president to overturn the vote.

On the morning of January 6, 2021, Herschmann said he received a call from Giuliani about what Pence would do that day.

The call was described as an "intellectual discussion" by Herschmann. When we finished, he said, "You're probably right."

Pete Aguilar, a member of the House panel, said this was indicative of how Giuliani knew there was a problem with the idea that the votes would be overturned.

The fact that Giuliani admitted that the theory was wrong didn't stop him from speaking to the crowd just a few hours later.

The clip of Giuliani's speech was played before the Capitol riot. In the clip, Giuliani was heard saying that if he were elected, he would give the legislature five to 10 days to complete their work.

Giuliani has made false claims of voter fraud in the past. He is also being sued by a voting systems company for defamation.

Giuliani was hit with an ethics charge by the DC bar after making baseless election claims.