Bill McKibben was on the frontlines of the environmental wars back when green was just a color. His book "The End of Nature" was published in 1989 and established him as a leading thinker on the damage humans are doing to the planet.
He has been publishing books since 2001, including the most recent, "The flag, the cross, and the station wagon." The subtitle of the book is "A Graying American Looks Back at his Suburban Boyhood and Wonders What the Hell Happened"
McKibben is dismayed by the American present, wondering how we became a society strained by bleak racial and economic inequality, where life expectancy was falling even before a pandemic deepened our divisions.
He talked to Yahoo News from his home in Vermont. Climate change will make the weather in Washington, D.C. similar to what Mississippi is currently experiencing.
You write about neighbors. Why is it important?
The sense that we belong to communities as large as our species and as small as our neighborhood is what I talk about in a lot of different words. We encountered a radical idea that our only duty was to ourselves and our family.
The key switch was used. Jimmy Carter was associated with one world and Ronald Reagan with another. We made the right decision.
The disastrous turn that brought us to this point is what you think.
It goes far beyond just economics. I think that happened when I was talking about Christianity, from community to evangelicals focused on my Lord and Savior. We have ended up in a very transactional and hyper- individual world.
I think you see this differently than I do.
The seeds of it came from the sties. Ayn Rand, an influential novelist and philosopher, had the phrase "do your own thing" on some level.
Is it possible that most people want to live like this in our society?
There is a chance that it is possible. There is a very interesting question. Human nature has both things. Evolutionary biologists can explain why there's a draw to selfishness. Even evolutionary biologists can explain the draw to a sense of community and connection. Good societies hold these things in balance because of the idea that you have to have a militia. That is a very different world than the one where everyone decides they want their own weapon.
There is a lot of debt in your book. Is it possible to explain that concept?
This is an extraordinary time of wealth creation. We now know some of the costs and expenses of others. Whether there were people in our own society who were shut out from the economic escalator ride or people who are having their lives turned upside down by the carbon that we poured into the atmosphere in the course of becoming that prosperous
I believe that debts should be paid back.
Debts are only repaid if there is a need to do so.
That's correct. One can't force it in this case. One writes books and organizes. It is not pointless to appeal to the conscience of people.
Government should be more muscular in these areas.
It's absolutely true. All of us are working together, that's what government is about. The government won't do these things unless we build a consensus in our society that we should do them.
I'm trying to understand if some progressives are frustrated with democracy. They can't force the changes you write about, but they recognize their necessity
If one had an alternative to recommend to democracy, it would be worth considering, but not for me. The book states that I had the belief that democracy is important to me when I was a child.
You begin the book with a picture of what it was like to live up there. Home prices have increased considerably.
I think so. The house my parents bought for 30 grand, which was 200 grand in today's dollars, sold last year, and the last person who bought it paid a million dollars for it and immediately tore it down, and on this narrow footprint of land.
Home price values have gone up quickly. In a sense, that is the definition. The people were in the right place.
What is that thing? What does the proliferation of wealth mean for society?
When you get on the escalator, there are divisions and inequalities. It makes sure that people who aren't on the escalator at the bottom are never caught up. What happened to the wealth gap between white and black Americans over this period of time is remarkable.
Is it necessary for race to be paid back?
It's true. I don't know what we're going to call them. That is a great gift to the right-wing politicians. Are you talking about them? There is no question in regards to justice.
People are crazy about having anyone teach about racism in the public schools because of that. I don't think it's because people are worried about their children being guilt-ridden. children are smart Children have done well in history studies. People feel guilty and don't want to think about it. Why are you thinking about it?
If Trump or someone like him were elected, what would it say about this country?
Once, the body fought off the virus. It weakened us yet more to do it, and it doesn't feel like the body politic is strong enough to fight off those infectious diseases again. We will look at it. It would be a sign that the disease had not been broken.
Is there a relationship between cultural issues, political issues and climate work that you have been doing for a long time?
The framework that we have been living in since Reagan was perfect for expanding our demands on the environment and for figuring out a way to stop the climate crisis.
When it comes to climate change, the U.S. has unique leverage because of it's wealth and status.
Do you think the future is going to be bad?
When I was 27 years old, I wrote a book called "The End of Nature." I'm not a Pollyanna, that's for sure. I wouldn't do that if I had decided there was no use for it. I am not a dumb person. I will retire to the back porch if I cannot convince myself that it is worth it.
What type of whiskey do you prefer?
Do you have anything?
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